quote:

Originally posted by Sundancer7

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Originally posted by Rusty246

Another shrinkage/puffy middle trick. After you patty out your burgers invert the tip of a wooden spoon right through the center of the burger. All of the shrinkage concentration is on closing the hole, not shrinking of your burger as a whole. Really.

I do not know if what Rusty is indicating and workable or not. I wish some other thoughts from Lleechef and her SO Z. This seems to be different to others who have posted not to touch the burger. Perhaps I misunderstood.

The message I have always used is that you do not touch the burger except turn it, not punch it. Please advise.

Paul E. smith
Knoxville, TN

Well, let’s say this, I read it in a magazine, tried it and it works. Hey, you’re touching it when you patty it out, what’s a little spoon poke(not punch)gonna hurt? Mr. Sundancer I’m shocked at your lack of adventure. Give it a try, you won’t be sorry.

Another shrinkage/puffy middle trick. After you patty out your burgers invert the tip of a wooden spoon right through the center of the burger. All of the shrinkage concentration is on closing the hole, not shrinking of your burger as a whole. Really.

I like 75/25 ground chuck.
I grill on a weber until medium rare with salt & pepper.
I find the 25 percent fat makes a moist and juicy and tasty burger.
Just made them last nite and had one with american, both sides of the bun have cheese, and one with an artisanal cheddar.
They were some of the juiciest best burgers I’ve had since the last time I did some grillin.

Actually, Zman does make a pretty MEAN burger, even with all that VIGOROUS kneeding! We don’t always have them that way but when he has the time to prepare them the day before and let the meat "marinate" they are exceptional. The more you "smoosh" the ingredients together (VIROROUS KNEEDING) the better the meat is thoroughly seasoned.

As a side note, you don’t rest bread dough so the gluten will relax. You only let the dough rest so the yeast will work and make it rise. When making bread, you want the maximum amount of gluten to come out of the flour, thus more kneeding is better. The more gluten that comes out of the kneeding of the flour in bread, the finer the air holes. This is why I mix up the bread dough and have The Big Guy kneed it! His fists and arms are my Mixer!! The only time one would want to "rest" any kind of dough would be in pastry making when you would want the MINIMUM of gluten, thus resulting in a very fine, flaky pastry. When I make a pate brisee, it must go into the fridge for an hour to "relax". For pastry making, I prefer "soft flour", usually pastry flour from France, for bread making I prefer King Arthur which is a harder flour and has lots of gluten and turns out a perfect loaf of bread every time.
Enuf about flour and it’s properties……….I can make a testimonial about the Zman’s burger recipe and can assure that it’s AWESOME!!

Zman’s recipe sounds intriguing, and most of the things I do are mentioned here, but here’s my recipe. Buy fresh ground chuck from a butcher you trust. The ground beef at the grocery store tastes like celery and won’t do. Open the butcher paper and pull apart the chub of ground beef apart with your fingers. Add sea salt, fresh ground black pepper, and a modest amount of worcestershire sauce, then fold with the paper back into a chub. Divide into the # of burgers you’re making and shape lightly into a ball, then squish. Don’t worry about the "cracks" at the edge. Salt the outsides, doing the second side after flipping. I grill them on a Faberware grill in the lower (closer to the coil) position 24 minutes for medium and 18 minutes for medium rare, flipping only once halfway through. Add cheddar to flipped burgers about 6 minutes before they’re done, 4 minutes for American cheese. Put buns, cut sides down, on the grill about 90 seconds before all is done, and no need for butter if they’re fresh. Prepare yourself for compliments.

Zman, I like your idea of the seasoning, but I just can’t get beyone that "vigorous" kneading. You rest a bread dough so the gluten will relax, amongst other things, but does meat "relax" in the same way? The scientific method requires someone else to try Zman’s recipe and report back to us. Please do, someone!

80% ground chuck….ground sirloin is acceptable at 80%. Don’t over manipulate, and don’t over cook.

The juiciest, most flavorfull burgers I ever tasted:
Place 2-5 lbs. of ground sirloin,chuck, or round (10% fat min.) in a large mixing bowl. Season with fresh ground pepper, a pinch of salt, ground white pepper, cumin, and fennel. Knead vigorously to mix in the spices. Then add finely chopped fresh onion and garlic and knead again ’til well mixed.
NOW comes the important part ….. Add equal parts of Worcestershire sauce and A-1 steak sauce and knead VIGOROUSLY. Repeat until "wet". ( by "wet",
I mean until the meat is saturated and will absorb no more!) Form the ground meat into a large ball, cover, and refrigerate for a min. of 24 hrs.
If you have done this correctly, any wors./A-1 sauce that you may have seen in the bowl WILL be gone!
Form the patties to your favorite size and let them rest @ room temp. for 1 hr. Sear over very high heat on both sides then put the cover on the grill and close the vents. Cook for another 5 mins. or til med. rare.
DO NOT FOR ANY REASON "smash" or press these burgers with a spatula while cooking!!
The end result will be a succulent burger so juicy that the juice will run down your arms! ENJOY![:p][:p][:p]

From America’s Test Kitchens "The Best Recipe" cookbook (which I like better than the show): they agree with the 80/20 proportion and say anything over about 21 or 22% fat will wind up being left in the pan anyway. They recommend buying a chuck roast and having it ground or grinding it yourself and say in their tests doing so the result came out at about 20% fat content when checked with a Fat Analyzer device. That’s what I prefer to do, grinding it myself. I presume they were buying choice rather than select beef.

Interesting facts I didn’t know: labeled fat content on a package of meat has to be accurate no matter where processed but the content, in terms of what cut(s) of meat were used, isn’t controlled or assured unless the meat was processed at a federally inspected meat processing plant.

From Russ Parsons’ "How to Read a French Fry:" the perceived juiciness of a piece of meat has to do both with how much moisture is left in the meat when cooked but also how much the saliva glands are stimulated. The intensification of flavor which results from caramelization of sugars on the surface of the meat (browning) stimulates the salivaries more than that grey stuff the fast food places specialize in.

I like a little ‘crust’ on my burger patty — not blackened – with a bit of pink left in the center.

I know this may sound odd but you can make a compound butter such as garlic tarragon butter and place a pat of butter right in the middle of the raw pattie. Not only does the butter keep the meat moist while cooking but you have great flavor as well! This idea was originally thought of by the father of French cooking, Augustus Escoffier but he would use a small ice cube.

I use the 80/20 mix for my burgers… Nothing special in handling them, I form the patties I want, take a spoon to indent the center (reduces shrinkage), season with Lawrys Seasoning salt on both sides and toss them on the grill… Minimal flipping! 3 at the most! Then I use my meat probe and soon as they hit 165 I pull them off the grill… Never come out dry and always juicy…

I grind my own chuck making sure that there is a reasonable amount of fat included (the exact percentage is pretty hard to calculate). I prefer to cook it in thickish, hand-formed patties over charcoal on a Lodge cast iron grill (cast iron holds the heat best and therefore sears the meat better). Unlike Rick, I want flames–my ideal burger is blackened crispy on the outside but with a pea-sized bit of raw meat in the center.

For a simple juicy burger:

-Use 75-80% lean chuck.
-GENTLY fold the meat and make a thick patty.
-Add a pad of butter in the middle (optional).
-Sprinkle with onion powder.
-Pre-heat your BBQ grill to high heat (450-500).
-Sear the patty for 1 1/2 to 2 minutes each side (Cover shut).
-Move coals to the sides (or shut off one burner if gas used) so no fire is underneath burger, and reduce grill temp to around 350.
-Flip burger every 1 1/2 to 2 minutes until done.

Enjoy!
Rick

good beef makes for a juicy burger, no other thing will do. the best " fast food"chain i know of is Burgerville here in Portland OR and vicinity. They use Oregon Country Beef which is hormone free and never frozen and grown by local farmers and the burgers are great. I sometimes buy beef for good burgers from Gartners meats ( http://www.gartnersmeats.com)a local butcher who’s been around for many years. There is a marked difference between their fresh ground "ground beef" and supermarket varieties.

Not that lleechef needs MY endorsement, but one of the main lessons I’ve learned "the hard way" is DON’T smash the burger. Others are: don’t hand-form the meat too tightly, use at LEAST an 80-20 mix, but I’m still with lleechef on this; use 75-25. Also, as I mentioned before, depressing the center of the patty really works.

And as for Lone Star’s suggestion about covering pan-fried burgers with the lid, that’s for steaming the BUN, not the meat. I love burgers cooked over charcoal or in a cast-iron skillet, and now I ALWAYS finish burgers cooked in a skillet using Lone Star’s suggestion. FANTASTIC! [:p][:p]

Just felt like throwing another two cents into this fountain. [:o)][:o)]