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Home › Forums › Restaurant Professionals Forum › Professional Hot Dog Vendors › Anyone from NC having trouble with health department over new NSF requirements for carts?

This topic contains 10 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by wireless3418 wireless3418 10 years, 6 months ago.

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  • October 8, 2010 at 7:21 am #2758917
    localnet
    localnet
    Member

    And for $100 more you can serve this… Unreal. Remember to vote these bastards out tomorrow as these regulations are getting to the point of insanity.

  • October 8, 2010 at 7:21 am #2758919
    SpiffysRedHots
    SpiffysRedHots
    Member

    I have 2 carts in Wake County, NC and the latest one was approved just a few months ago after this memo went out.  The memo was to provide guidance to all the county HD’s in hopes that they all get on the same page.  The memo ENCOURAGES all prospective cart operators to purchase a cart listed with an ANSI-accredited certification program and that non motorized cart be held to NSF/ANSI Standard 59.  It also states that if the cart is not listed by an ANSI-accredited program then the owner shall submit documentation to the HD verifying how the equipment is EQUIVALENT to NSF/ANSI standards.  I discussed this standard with my HD inspector and provided info from my cart manufacturer with the listed equipment/materials on the cart and indicated which standard it met.  They had no problem with this.  The only thing I needed to add was a roll top over my covered chili/kraut pan area.  A cover over the covered pans…go figure!
     
    My inspector stated that I would need to add this roll top over me steam pans on my first cart, as well, and I would have 6 months from my next inspection to get it accomplished
     
    I don’t believe you needed to buy new carts, that was not the intend of this memo.  There most likely was some small things you needed to do to the cart to make them meet the NSF standard.  I’m glad you had the resources to avoid the whole situation and purchase new NSF approved carts.  
     
    Good luck to you.
    Spiffy

  • October 8, 2010 at 7:21 am #2758763
    edwmax
    edwmax
    Member

    Not just Constitutioal or Federal law, but any law including State & Municipalities and local governments.
    ref: http://www.constitution.org/brief/forsythe_42-1983.htm http://www.constitution.org/brief/forsythe_42-1983.htm  The Official can be held personalty responsible
     
    “[style=”color: #0000ff;”]…Section 1983 does not impose a state of mind requirement independent of the underlying basis for [/style]
    [style=”color: #0000ff;”] liability, but there must be a causal connection between the defendant’s actions and the harm that [/style]
    [style=”color: #0000ff;”] results. In order to hold a local government liable under section 1983, the Supreme Court has interpreted [/style]
    [style=”color: #0000ff;”] this causation element to require that the harm be the result of action on the part of the government entity [/style]
    [style=”color: #0000ff;”] that implemented or executed a policy statement, ordinance, regulation, or decision officially adopted and [/style]
    [style=”color: #0000ff;”] promulgated by that body’s officers, or the result of the entity’s custom. Further, the entity’s policy or [/style]
    [style=”color: #0000ff;”] custom must have been the “moving force” behind the alleged deprivation ….  A local government is said to have an unconstitutional policy when it fails to train its employees, and the failure to train amounts to deliberate indifference to an obvious need for such training, and the failure train will likely result in the employee making a wrong decision. …[/style]”
      So if the HP Insp is an employee of a Local government, that government may be suited directly as well as the HD Insp
     
    While this was intended for civil rights violations, it can be used for wrong or illegal actions by government Officials that results in monetary loss by a private citizen.
     
    Wireless, the actions of the HD Insp instructing you to get a NSF cart and equipment has cost you at least $8,000 to $10,000, maybe more.   Other vendors will not have to buy new carts to replace their current licensed cart and this puts you at a disadvantage to compete.  So you now have a loss of business income to include.

  • October 8, 2010 at 7:21 am #2758776
    rumaki
    rumaki
    Member

    Section 1983 is the federal civil rights statute.  Although 1983 actions can be brought against state government “actors,” the lawsuit must be based on the state actor’s conduct that deprives the plaintiff of rights guaranteed under the U.S. Constitution or federal law.

  • October 8, 2010 at 7:21 am #2763425
    wireless3418
    wireless3418
    Member

    I read a copy of the memo that went out to all of the local health departments here in NC.  I summary it says that any cart currently permitted may be waived for no longer than six months!  This is crazy!  Fortunately I had the resources set aside to buy new carts.  It is going to put a lot of guys out of business.

  • October 8, 2010 at 7:21 am #2763426
    edwmax
    edwmax
    Member

    It’s not normal that a new reg is retro-active like that.   The reg  should be a requirement for New Cart that had never been licensed for work.  Existing licensed carts are usually grandfathered.  Get a copy of the new code section and read it.

  • October 8, 2010 at 7:21 am #2763427
    wireless3418
    wireless3418
    Member

    Hello,
     
    I am new here.  Just joined today in fact.  Recently the NC Health Department decided that all food vending carts must now be NSF!  I currently operate two carts and was told that up on re-enspection that they will not pass unless they are NSF.  I went ahead and ordered two NSF Hummer Carts from Willy Dogs and they should be delivered next week.  This was a very expensive thing to have to do with almost no notice what so ever!  Does anyone know if there is a way to make a standard cart meet standard 59 of NSF and actually have the inspector pass it?  If not, I may have two very nice carts for sale for someone outside of NC.

  • October 8, 2010 at 7:21 am #2758829
    Mkinzi94
    Mkinzi94
    Member

    Trouble?  Hmmmm….  My HD here in Buncombe Co (Asheville) weighed in on that.  During the time I was trying to make a case for Steve’s EZ Cart, I believe the answer was close to “NO WAY!” So after I decided to just go for it and buy new (after convincing from Ben’s Carts), I tried to impress upon the HI’s that I was NOT out to be a troublemaker, but I had questions.  I asked if the two inspectors who had met us at the commissary were qualified to determine if any cart conformed to Section 59.  One said he was somewhat familiar with it with his background.  Dubiously, I said “OK” and asked what about all the other county HD’s in the state.  Are they? Point being what “certifies” a person as being qualified to interpret Section 59?  I said “Section 59 includes other sections by reference – are you qualified in those referenced sections as well?”  I was NOT trying to get on a soapbox – I was trying to understand the system.  (I really believe he agreed that this whole NSF thing was a can of worms for NC health inspectors).  Regardless, he looked at our Ben’s Cash Cow and said “that’s a really nice looking cart” – actually walking around and admiring it!  It is permitted, they know what I’m doing,  and that settles it for me.
     
    [[Now, I was told when I bought the cart that it DID meet NSF but actual certification was in the works.  However, I believe there might be a few deficiencies as far as that goes –  but if the State leaves it up to the County HD, good enough.]]
     
    We sell Indian food (yes – precooked, prewrapped, labeled, etc.) from our cart BUT I just sold my first two hot dogs on Friday.  I figure if people want hot dogs too – let ’em have one!  And although I will be adding chili later on to the hot dog toppings, I still can’t get my head around the fact that although hot dogs are the only foods that may actually be prepared on the cart, I can have a pan of chili there for the asking!  [huh]   Does that mean I can serve a bowl of chili if I place a cocktail weiner in the bottom first? [lol]
     
    (PS – Maybe edwmax has a legal point in his post about Title so and so; however, I caution that he meant to say “liable” instead of “libel”, so take someone’s legal advice cautiously… No offense meant Ed.)

  • October 8, 2010 at 7:21 am #2758841
    edwmax
    edwmax
    Member

      

    I read a copy of the memo that went out to all of the local health departments here in NC.  I summary it says that any cart currently permitted may be waived for no longer than six months!  This is crazy!  Fortunately I had the resources set aside to buy new carts.  It is going to put a lot of guys out of business.

     
    A memo is not the same as the reg.   … Since you were told wrong and because of the HD Insp’s order, you have spent unnecessary money to comply with his order; … you have grounds now for a Title 42 USC 1983 suit to recover your loss. The HD Insp. can be held libel for his negligence.    … You did not need to buy a new cart and your existing cart’s value just drop to $0 to not much (you can’t sell it).

  • October 8, 2010 at 7:21 am #2758860
    lornaschinske
    lornaschinske
    Member

    For $100 you can download a PDF from the NSF website and make sure your cart will comply. Apparently, according to the memo, you can build a cart (first buy the guideline) but any appliances will need to be NSF or similar. Looks like NC doggers will either put their carts inside an enclosed trailer or buy a copy of the NSF guideline in order to comply.  I still say they are trying to get rid of the push carts.

  • November 2, 2010 at 12:29 pm #716363
    wireless3418
    wireless3418
    Member

    Anyone from NC having trouble with health department over new NSF requirements for carts?

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